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it was harsh. how about those people who lied to the congress that represents the people about the nsa activities and bold faced lies saying they did not spy on americans? that is all i have to say. what you think about the sentence to reprimanding and what others would do if they provide that type of information? those in the future might provide this type of information to the public as well? caller: i would like to echo the previous gentleman's comments, and that is they did take an oath. at what point does your --scious do the right thing it is really a tough question. he did break his oath. at the same time, at what point is there a point when you should break the oath when it is for the greater good? >> usa today reflects hemlines and other papers. nsa admits new privacy violations. kevin johnson writing about the top intelligence officials here yen . there are other accounts of the story as well. theheard some thoughts on 35-year sentence handed down. you could make your thoughts known as well. kentucky up next. archie on the independent line. good morning. personally i think th
president obama justifies the nsa's collection of metadata, referring to millions of individuals' telephone records and internet, airline and credit card data. experts warn that the invasion of privacy is anything but. many players in government characterize the nsa's use of data as more or less benign. but metadata is more powerful than most realize. it can reveal a person's religious and political views, economic standing, sexual preference, personality, mental health, ethnicity. use of addictive substances and more. the ability to characterize groups by these traits might tempt some in government from finding terrorists to targeting groups because of their political leanings. so say three metadata specialists. they're proposed solution? give the citizenry the power to set controls on corporations and companies who collect their data, whether and with whom it can be shared, and whether or not it should be destroyed permanently. people won't have access to their digital data trails in a way similar to an e-mail in- box, so that people can monitor who views their data and who uses it. quest
's privacy rights didn't. nsa broke the privacy rules thousands of times per year. >> obama care is coming. the extra cost isn't the only thing to bring with it he what every american needs to hear. >> a discovery for dog owners every where. warnings of serious health risks. "fox & friends first" starts right now. >> good morning everyone. you are watching "fox & friends first" on this friday morning. i am patti ann browne. >> i am heather childers. thank you so much for starting your day with us. right to our top story. breaking news overnight the nsa broke privacy rules and over stepped the legal authority thousands of times each year. that's according to a new report from the "washington post". most violations involved the unauthorized surveillance of america. >> elizabeth brpran is liv prane from washington with the latest. >> the agency over stepped the boundaries. edward snowden proving significant violations include the unauthorized use of information on more than 3,000 americans and green card holders quote a large number of calls from washington were intercepted in 2008 after the
the ease with which the nsa by the push of a button, whether deliberate or accidental, can get large volumes of u.s. communications. >> reporter: "the washington post" reporter that broke the story says the internal nsa audit leaked to him by edward snowden contains more information than is provided to congressional oversite committees. dianne feinstein said in a written statement the committee quote, can and should do more to independently verify that nsa's operations are appropriate. but the aclu's michelle richardson asks how. >> members of congress have been clear, they have not received a full explanation how the programs worked or any clients' problems with privacy regulations. >> reporter: an nsa tutorial instructs analysts not to give extraneous information to congressional overseers. the president says there's no indication the agency is abusing its powers. >> what you're not reading about is the government actually abusing these programs. what you're hearing about is the prospect that these could be abused. >> reporter: the nsa is now drawing fire from the left and right, w
. neil: should he have been on top of the nsa, or is that too much for mark cuban? >> come on neil. >> you are mr. internet star. >> i don't see it as that big a deal, i know -- i get audited almost every year, all my foundations get audited pretty much every year, most of my businesses. neil: both democratic and republican administrations alike. >> i don't feel like a victim, i still have to compete, with nsa it is disappointing there was not transparency up front they were doing this, and we found out about it the way we did. about, bits are bits, if you think your mailbox was protected and they could not find out what they wantedo. there is not a much privacy as people would like to expect, particularly in an era where i would rather be protected. neil: if you want your privacy get over it, is it that bad? >> it is that good. neil: you hear the other instances like hacking or sites shutting down, and instagram, and nazdaq, so many others, washington post, "new york times," amazon, again and again, you see a pattern. >> yeah, you better believe it, every single digital asset we h
of the law and rev lauelations on the nsa program that can spy on everything you do online and i mean everything and the nixon you haven't seen until now. footage hidden for the last 40 years. tonight i'll talk to the other nixon, the 83-year-old brother ed. >>> i want to begin with ariel castro said to make a statement tomorrow. pamela brown spoke to castro's sister today and joins me now. pamela, i poured through the new documentation that's been released this evening, very, very disturbing revolutions. much of it based on diaries from the three poor women held captive by ariel castro. tell me about that. >> reporter: yeah, that's right. you remember all the counts, more than 900 counts ariel castro faced and specific with the dates. we're learning that prosecutors actually used these women's diaries to help them document all the different charges. according to these documents that the prosecutor's office released today, the women over the past ten years got through their time in captivity by keeping diaries and writing about abuse they experienced and their dreams of getting out so
online. nsa surveillance, glen greenwald who broke the story today joins me next. [ man ] look how beautiful it is. ♪ honey, we need to talk. we do? i took the trash out. i know. and thank you so much for that. i think we should get a medicare supplement insurance plan. right now? [ male announcer ] whether you're new to medicare or not, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. it's up to you to pay the difference. so think about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, they help cover some of what medicare doesn't pay. i did a little research. with a medicare supplement plan, you'll be able to stay with your doctor. oh, you know, i love that guy. mm-hmm. [ male announcer ] these types of plans let you visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. and there are no networks. is this a one-size-fits-all kind of thing? no. there are lots of plan options. it all depends on what we need and how much we want to spend. [ male announcer
for the nsa but people employed at private contractors that are deployed to the nsa like mr. snowden. they can sit at their desk and there is not even a supervisor within the nsa before the process looks at what they are doing let alone a court which means they are free to engage in all kinds of searches. there are legal limits of what they can do when it involves a u.s. person. although a lot of u.s. persons communications are in these databases. there is no technological restraint or after the fact robust auditing process and there's all kinds of evidence emerging because of disclosures of abuse. there's a lot of proof that if you allow surveillance without limits it will be wildly abused and i think that's why even in washington these stories are making such an impact. >> i want to bring in james risen, a journalist with the new york times and knows all about questions of the nsa and freedom of the press. you can't discuss specifics of the ongoing case and senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin. james risen, what do you make of his latest exposure by edward snowden in terms of the kind of prog
's pass word, so i wouldn't be able to access those mess ages. >> so it would be up to nsa to crack them, if they had access to the emails. so is that what is going on here? the nsa is trying to get all of this information. but then it brings up a thought, why shut it down if they can still get it from you if you still have it? >> i'm walking a very fine line here without divulging what exactly transpired, but i was trying to prevent future transgressions. i have always been comfortable turning over to the government whatever information i have about a specific user. >> right. you have been subpoenaed on a few occasions, a couple of dozen subpoenas, and in those cases you didn't feel because there were individual people and there were reasons you granted those and -- and -- and -- you accepted the subpoenas and gave over the information. >> yeah, and going forward because i still have access to the data, i could be forced to do the same thing with a particular account. like i said before this was a question of access. should our federal government have access to private systems? to condu
're going to do some revisions here at the n.s.a., a little course correction, if you will. one thing we're going to do is an independent board of outsiders who will help us determine if we're doing the right thing with the n.s.a. and protect civil liberties and certainly protect against abuses. we find out today who will be actually picking that board, shepherding it and in the words of the administration, establishing the group. that will be the outsider known as james clapper, the head of the n.s.a. i think they're trying to make us l.o.l. ok? i think this is preposterous. lindsey, do you believe that the head of the n.s.a. might pick an independent board that would then say that he's doing everything wrong? >> i have a hard time believing that, and i mean, i have a hard time toughing this guy at all, since when he was asked directly if the n.s.a. was collecting data on american citizens, he answered unequivocally no only a find out a couple months later that yeah, they're collecting a lot of data. >> he says now he'll pick an independent board. i'm glad you pointed that out. we got t
to pounce on this nsa mess to see how the heck it got messy. what we did not tell you is that it would take 60 days to find out. ♪ neil: all right. good news on this whole nsa mess. in 60 days, 60 days, we'll get to the bottom of this, 60 days. that's how long we have to wait to hear from the president's so-called surveillance panel to release initial findings, 60 days. imagine how much could happen in that time. why, look what happened in the last 60 days. on the heels the government collected 115 million americans phone records, we heard they were demanding and getting billions of e-mails from every major online site out there; then news that the nsa had 75% of all internet traffic under its watch, reports later that courts slapped the nsa more than a few times for this kind of overreach over just the last few years; then snooping on phone calls made abroad, phone calls from abroad, and nsa snoops spying on girlfriends, later explained it's just a few snoops on just a few girlfriends, and that's just in the lass 60 days. can you imagine what we'll discover in the next 60 days? the hills
government. what is the significance of these documents that have been released by the nsa? >> well, the court essentially was very angry at the government, because he said you've been collecting all this data on americans which have nothing to do with terrorism, completely domestic. the nsa is supposed to be focused on foreign communications. you've been misrepresenting what you've been doing to the court for three years, essentially. the nsa was essentially sending its machines, the computers that it was collecting its stuff that essentially -- you communicating with someone in al qaeda, yemen, for instance, completely your do mistic communications with other people. >> in this country? >> in this country it's not necessarily the content. it was taking care -- and it wasn't doing that. >> this went on for three years? >> for tli years. october 2011, the nsa finally comes to the judge and explains what they've been doing. the judge was very angry and said, well, you know, tell us how you're going to fix this. the nsa had to come up with new ways to remove the domestic data. >> and
you can follow us on twitter. outfront starts right now. >>> the nsa caught again spying on people it says it wasn't spying on. plus an investigation. how you can protect your e-mail. and then we were told the threat was contained but now japan admits radiation leaking fukushima plant is a quote house of horrors. >>> good evening. i am erin burnett. the government is illegally watching you. today we learn that the national security agency collected as many as 58,000 e-mails per year over the past three years in the united states. e-mails that had nothing to do with terrorism. and the agency misrepresented the scope of this effort to the secret court that is supposed to oversee and regulate it. evan perez joins us now. how did this program work? >> well, the way the program works is the nsa works with essentially pretty much most of the telecommunication companies in the united states, at&t, verizon. it works with them to essentially under these court orders it is supposed to get foreign communications, things that might have something to do with terrorism. what happened apparently
un headquarters. here with the reaction crisis tails which the nsa may want to read to figure out how to handle this crisis and from the american center on law and crisis. welcome to targeting conservatives it's actually refreshing, lanny, that we're going after the bad guys. i like that we're spying on our enemies at the u.n. but it's too stupid they got caught. that's the only criticism i have. i like that they're doing it. >> sean, let me remind you that i was a member of president bush's privacy and civility oversight board. i was read into the surveillance program along with ted olson, there were five of us who got to know about that program. when i was done watching and observing what we were doing to prevent another 9/11, i said to then the director of the nsa, great man, general mike hayden, if anything general hayden -- there are so many hoops and checks and balances and legal concerns about approaching fourth amendment rights that we may miss the bad guys who are going to hit us again so i am a supporter of what i think is a great agency with a lot of great people, sometimes
neil: now we can safely say the nsa more than just kind of broke the law. try thousands of times. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. not just fine. don't take it for me. take it from despise himself. an internal audit out of no less than the national curity agency it's often define 200776 violations of established court orders regarding surveillance on americans, are targets in this country. with the nsa demands in a speech read what anyone else would call ridiculous. hundreds of cases of supposedly unintended interception of u.s. e-mail and phone calls and typographical errors that prompted overly aggressive searches. this group for one thing, not responding to them or even reporting them is quite another. it's not only sloppy but illegal and now we come to find that the smartest intelligence surveillance court that is supposed to keep an eye on them to not even learn about some of these violations until months after the fact willing among constituonal which is kind of like locking the barn door after all the animals left. my friends, step back and ponder the sheer magnitude o
. >>> the leaks keep on coming. today "the washington post" published a secret internal audit revealing the nsa violated privacy rules thousands of times. that was just over a one-year period. this comes just a week after the president promised new steps to protect the public and make surveillance programs more transparent. according to the documents obtained by "the post," the audit found more than 2700 violations. the agency claims that number is above average and blames a change in technology for the problems. okay. meanwhile, the white house so far has declined to comment on this newest report, but we're told they were aware of it prior to be its publication. you know who is ready to comment on it? our friend perry bacon, political editor for "the grio." when i look at these leaks from snowden and the national conversation and the nsa forced to say we're going to make changes, haven't really made that many changes, but they're forced to say we're going to make change, we're going to put our cards on the table, as well as 90% of the private contractors, people who do what edward snowden used
. what was found today by bug- sniffing dogs. and: the n-s-a leaker reveals another huge government surveillance program. that can track everything down. to your google searches. >> pam: new tonight at eight. new flight restrictions at sfo are now in place. they come after the crash of asiana flight 214. and only involve international flights landing at the airport. kron 4's scott rates shows us how those new restrictions work and what passengers are saying about them. >> reporter: the faa is taking this after seeing these new khorana's of protesto arounds and let me show you up to the sky these two aircraft coming up for normally, these could be a landing simultaneously, side by side. however, with the new regulations, they have to be staggered. and you can see the aircraft in the background will land after that first aircraft has already touched down at the faa has sense that this is hoping to minimize pilots and distractions. and the big question are we seeing flight delays? the faa says " no ". and it is not clear however, passengers say absolutely. >> how long has been delayed
, now we're learning nsa broke privacy rules thousands of times per years. this is going to blow your mind. and then -- >> just happy, happy, happy. thank you. [ applause ] >> and he should be happy. he just won the lotto. but wait till you hear what a majority of americans say they would do if they won. this is going to shock you. "cashin' in," defenders of freedom and capitalism, starts right now. hi, everybody. welcome to "cashin' in." our crew this week -- welcome, everybody. first, it was the big cities and now the suburbs. poverty is a painful reality for nearly 1 in 5 americans, including moms, dads and kids. in 1964, president johnson declared a war on poverty. over the decades since, taxpayers have funded a massive redistribution of wealth. in the years since that declared war, welfare spending is up 11,000%. and spending on food stamps has ballooned 32,000%. with trillions of tax dollars to combat poverty, one would think poverty levels would fall. the exact opposite is happening. american poverty has exploded to 15.9%, and there's more. america's biggest suburbs are now hom
america's underpants. i wonder what our prison cells will look like when the nsa has us all arrested for thought crime. that's spectacular. [ applause ] >> that's a huge conspiracy theory. that's like way off the reservation. >> stephanie: that and a few burns and we're ready to go. >> we need to pad captain america's underpants. >> stephanie: who got to teach spinning class yesterday? who was on the big girl bike? >> i didn't teach it but the instructor is injured and she asked me to ride for her yesterday. >> stephanie: i could not be prouder of our little girl. [ ♪ magic wand ] >> it is a lot of pressure to be up on that platform. >> did you tell her that was weakness leaving the body? >> my weakness leaving the body. >> stephanie: very proud of you. here she is, noted spinning instructor, jacki schechner. >> stop it. please. good morning, everybody. if you were early to bed and early to rise like we are, you may have missed the president's appearance on "the tonight show" last night. jay leno got pretty serious with president obama asking him questions about everything from hi
edward snowden temporary asylum. the self-professed nsa leaker got the proper documents to leave. he is in an undisclosed location this morning. and while it might help the former contractor this morning, jim aceda is joining us. what are the implications for what has happened with the whole snowden scenario? >> reporter: good morning, betty. the snowden situation has strained difficult relations between the united states and russia. the u.s. does see the snowden asylum as a slap in the face really. the question now is how far is the obama administration willing to go to embarrass putin by boycotting the g 20. obama and putin plan to have one-on-one talks in moscow before the g-20. the white house is hinting to cancel that. he spent his first night in freedom as an official refugee. his lawyer says that he's staying in the home of an american expat family, that he's learning russian and wants to get a job to support himself. not in information technology. he's more interested in becoming a human rights activist. back to you. >> very interesting. thank you very much. we'll watch that
.s. embassies. on friday president obama announced proposals to change the oversight and transparency of the nsa. speakers included congressman peter king who chairs the homeland security subcommittee on counterterrorism and intelligence, former new york times reporter judith miller and fox business network host john stossel. the event was cohosted by the manhattan institute, the weekly standard and the group concerned veterans for america. >> we want to thank you all for coming. i'm not normally intimidated when i speak at these events, but now that i didn't realize gunny sergeant duff was here, now i'm very worried. [laughter] it's great to have all of you. i also want to join in thanking those of you who serve for your service and to say how pleased i am that pete king and john stossel have agreed to be here and also judy miller and gary bernstein who will be joining us for the panel. pete, when i saw -- i saw pete in afghanistan, i was visiting with a couple of people looking around for about a week in late 2011, and pete had volunteered, reuped and gone to afghanistan then to help train the
down on what n.s.a. is doing? >> well, the grehing is we live a democracy. if we don't like what n.s.a. is doing we can get rid of the government and put in a different government. i think -- actually we've been collecting this information for so long, and long before n.s.a. was collecting it. let me tell you who was collecting it: american express, visa, all of your credit card data we have -- all of your financial records. this whole issue of privacy is utterly fascinating to me. for example, we could do a much better job in the whole new area of privacy which is medical records. >> rose: right. >> if we could take our medical records and put them in a database we could then figure out what drugs worked for what people. so we take all the medical records then all the gino mick data about the people and we put in the a database and figure out what therapies they're getting, what therapies work and don't work because there's this big database where you should take lipitor, you should take crestor. it could be very scientific. we could do a draw dramatically better job of treating peopl
to you. >> about time. thank you very much. >>> let's talk about the nsa. another revelation came out yesterday afternoon and it turns out that they have -- they have released additional information over the past -- since 2008 on things that have gone wrong in the nsa collection. for example, there was a redacted page which is unredacted and classified yesterday that revealed that we have collected 56,000 wholly domestic communications each year. so this is done, nothing was necessarily done with it. nothing was exposed by it. but these were collected and the fisa court judge did not know about it and he rebuked the nsa for doing that and they said they were unintentional errors. >> we have been talking for a while about the nsa, how they're saying trust us, we're not doing anything illegal. the stuff that was declassified yesterday said they didn't break some laws. they violated -- the nsa violated the constitution three times in three years. violated the constitution because they did as brian said go through our e-mails, domestic e-mails, rather than just the foreign stuff. remember
after former nsa contractor. a major internet hardware company is laying off 4,000 employees. david louie joins us now with details how he is speen yauj is going to cut workers. david? >> those 4,000 layoffs represent about 5% of the global work force. many of those 4,000 point the finger of blame at edward snowden. >> now, they've been+'n getting banned with a lot of countries and i think they're anticipating a major fall out. >> the tech analyst is battling a perception they might have secret codes embedded to allow nsa to spy overseas that. can impact sales fueled by revelations by former nsa contractor snow den. >> when there are rumors of china doing the same thing, congress banned to do the same thing sort of blocking sales now nsa has been found to do this. >> this with economic weakness could be why they weren't allowed to meet expectations reporting higher profits today but with future growth projected 2% lower, cisco stock price dropped 10% in after hours trading. cisco has almost 17,500 employees global head count is 75,000. the company has a history of layoffs added 7500
want to touch on the nsa and the news over the last month or so now of systematic tapping our collection of information. and again it's striking to me that there was a moment where there was phone tapping. the information was passing by and the nsa or fbi was tapping phones. now it's a different model. information, we don't know the details details but is sensibly taking from google's data center and from facebook's data center or microsoft data center. could this be -- doesn't seem -- could this be an alarming moment in the way that ways control freedom and openness of our broadband networks? >> guest: for me this is a continuation of a long history of surveillance by the united states government. it's different in degree but not actually in -- in the 20th century every single telegraph sent from united states to another country was systematically copied by our government and retained. there was widespread domestic surveillance of networks. now today we try to constrain using domestic intelligence surveillance but we have also built networks that carry our innermost thoughts
the nsa. this afternoon the president is meeting with a group of lawmakers about the controversial surveillance programs that collect phone records and emails. they are members of the intelligence committee or senators with specific concerns about the issue. and it comes as momentum is growing against the nsa security agency program. last night the security chief was heckled at a conference in las vegas. >> think what you're saying is that in these cases what's the decision, where is the discussion, and what tools should we have to stop those? >> you lied to congress. why would we believe you're not lying to us now. >> haven't lied to congress. >> hours earlier senators questioned intelligence officials about how the program success run and if it's invading americans' privacy. >> we could have more security if we stripped searched everybody that came into every building in america. we won't do that. we'll have more security if we close our borders to everybody. we're not going to do that. you worked together on a bill to rein in the nsa. thank you for being with us. you just saw th
on all the issues we're going to talk about. so let's start right off with the nsa program. i know some of it was covered in the previous panel, but i want to get into it, raj, a little bit how it actually works, and i'm talking about the metadata which was probably the biggest disclosure by edward snowden, the fact that millions and millions of records of americans' phone calls were being collected/stored. i'll let people use the word they want, by the nsa under a provision of the patriot action, section 215. raj, walk us through exactly how this program works in practice, who has access to it, what those records can be used for. >> sure. well, thanks, mike, and thanks to the aspen institute and to clark for pulling this all together. what i wanted to start out with is i firmly believe the u.s. government intelligence community, nsa in particular needs to be as transparent as possible consistent with our need to protect national security. and, obviously, it's that last piece that's the rub, and it makes it so difficult to talk about classified programs. but i would like to be as inform
want to touch on the nsa and the news over the last month or so now of systematic tapping or collection of information to begin again, it is striking to me there was a moment when, you know, it was a phone tapping. the information was passing by and the nsa or the fbi or whatever jurisdiction was wiretapping phones and now what is a different model. the flow of information, we don't know the details but it is ostensibly taking it from the datacenter or from the microsoft data center. where does this -- could this be the tipping point on this moment in the way that we treat -- they control the freedom and openness of the network? >> guest: for me this story is just a continuation of a long story of surveillance by the government. it's different in degrees, but not actually in kind. in the 20th century, every single telegraph sent from the united states to another country was systematically copied by the government and maintained. there was widespread domestic surveillance of networks. now today we try to constrain using oh-la-la on our domestic intelligence surveillance, but we have also
up on your firewall, i do want to touch on the nsa and the news over the last month or so now and systematic tapping her collection of information. again, it is striking to me there was a moment where was its own tapping. the information was passing by and the fbi, whether court jurisdiction or not was tapping phones. now it's a different model. we don't know the details, but it's just taking it from google's data center, from facebook status and are. where does this -- could this be -- could this be a tipping point of an alarming moment in the way we treat and control freedom and openness of our networks? >> guest: for me, the story is a continuation of a long history of surveillance by the united states government. it is different in degree, but not in kind. in the 20th century, every single telegraphs and from the united states to another country was systematically copied by our government and retained. there was widespread domestic surveillance of networks. now today we try to constrained using law, domestic intelligence surveillance. but we've also built networks that car
attack. >>> new revelations about the nsa surveillance programs and your e-mails. >>> right after the break, siblings and the autism study that has the bay area talking. >>> there's a new study about autism that may answer questions or raise concerns. >> especially if you live in the bay area. >> reporter: here's the stat for you. for the country, one in 88 kids is diagnosed as autistic. in some parts of the bay area that number rises to as many as 1 in 55 kids. there may be a way to predict if your next child is diagnosed as autistic. >> the pacific center for education works closely with kids who have autism and helps parents many of whom ask if i have one autistic child is it more likely that i will have enough? the answer may be yes. that doesn't mean it's time to panic. he says it means it may be time to prepare. >> if you can get attention to the child early on with early intervention therapeutic services there is a good chance you can avert a more serious case of autism by helping the development start. >> reporter: he says working early with kids as early as 10 months old
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snowden and published by the "washington post" claim the nsa has broken privacy rules and overstepped its legal authority thousands of times since 2008. the "washington post" also says an internal audit shows nearly 3,000 incidents in just one year. >> we definitely need more oversight. we need more public reporting. we need more transparency. it's no longer a tenable position for the nsa to say trust us. >> i totally reject those kind of claims. >> the head of the senate judiciary committee patrick leahy says since the nsa is not giving straight answers he'll open a senate hearing after the summer break. >>> now to the latest developments in egypt. it's been a day of rage. dozens of people were killed in confrontations with security forces. and demonstrators gathered by the thousands. the protests came just two days after egypt's military ruler ordered his forces to clear protest camps. at least 638 people were killed and 1,000 more were wounded. nbc's ayman moden reports. >> reporter: for the third straight night the government has imposed a curfew on the capital, cairo, and cities all
it's used by even nsa. but oracle is an legal battle with google accusing the search giant of using its language without its permission. i sat down with >> you know larry and sergey you have trouble with? >> larry specifically. >> larry -- i think -- >> larry per se. >> larry per se >> why? >> because he makes the decisions over there. he runs that company. no one else runs that company. and they decided -- let me be very clear. when you write a program, you write it. you use the oracle oracle/java tools for everything. up press a button and say convert this to android format. we don't compete with google. we just took our stock. that's a completely separate issue. >> but think they're evil. >> i think what they did was absolutely --. >> and you blame larry page. >> so larry page is evil -- that makes larry page evil? >> no i know his slogan is don't be evil. i think he slipped up this one time. >> he's a good time except for this one time when he -- >> this really bothers me. i don't see how he thinks you can just copy someone else's stuff. >> let's talk about stev
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